Let me say there’s absolutely no way I would trade places with our men.
We may get the short end of the aging stick, but our men definitely have it far harder these days when it comes to dating. Show up masculine and strong, and we wish you were more emotional and vulnerable. Show up open and vulnerable, and we say you’re not strong or masculine enough.
It’s a mixed message dating world out there and no one seems to have a translator.
I recently re-entered the dating world and have experienced both surprise and disappointment in the tea/coffee date trend. What’s up with this?
Seems every woman I know, feels the same about the dreaded ambiguous coffee/tea date.
A man asks us to tea or coffee and we have absolutely no idea why you’re asking.
Does he want to date me?
Does he want to be my friend?
Does he want a business connection?
Does he need my help?
Many men tell me they believe this strategy relieves women of dating pressure, but really the only one having pressure relieved is the man asking. Yes, men are subjected to rejection and vulnerability when asking a woman out; we know this and have total respect for your courage. Because of this, most women are gentle in their rejection knowing the perilous position you’ve put yourself in.
On the flip side, playing it so safe that you no longer reveal your intentions doesn’t illicit respect.
If a woman is interested in you she will say yes to a date; but if she’s not interested in you romantically, she will most likely still say yes to tea assuming you have purely platonic intentions.
In the end all you’re doing is buying yourself more ambiguity. It’s truly not the TEA, its the thinly veiled attempt to refrain from asking for what you want. Let me repeat that…it’s truly NOT about the tea…it’s about the ambiguity. Say to us: “I’d love to take you out to tea and get to know you more”. and we know it’s a date!
When a man makes it clear he’s interested in getting to know me and asks me to lunch, dinner, a walk, heck… even tea, I know I need to be 100% clear and honest with my answer. You guys work hard for your money and most women don’t want to waste your time, money or attention!
If I say no I do it gracefully. If I say yes, you can bet I kinda like you. 😉
Women may vary in appearance and personality; but we’re pretty much the same when it comes to our dating communication preferences.
Being brave and asking for what you want is SEXY.
The safe way out, “let’s have tea” and pretend it’s not really a date is yawn, BORING. Tea says nothing. Again, it’s not about the TEA, it’s about the ambiguity of it.
Guys, women are tired of men approaching with the “let’s be friends” angle only to find out much later, you had an agenda. Sure sometimes loves sneaks up on you, but I’m referring to the manipulation from day one when you knew you never only wanted friendship.
When a man pretends to want friendship and then months later we find out you wanted far more from the very beginning, it’s heart breaking and feels icky.
My point?
Own it. If you are attracted, curious, interested in us, ask for what you want. Make it clear.
If perhaps you’re trying to avoid rejection by taking the safe route, chances are you’re doing this in other areas of life. Consider a few things inside yourself right now:
- When you’re not fully putting yourself out there in vulnerability asking for what you want, chances are you’re holding back in other areas of your life too.
- When a man is clear with his intentions: I’m interested and want to get to know you better, its 100% sexy whether we say yes or no.
- When we hear the “want to meet for tea or coffee?” question, there’s no clarity. It’s not about the money you’re spending on us, coffee or tea can be perfectly acceptable for a date; if you’re clear. Revealing that you’re interested in getting to know us more as a friend or even romantically earns our respect.
When men don’t shoot straight it leaves women wondering what you want. Why are we meeting? We’re not fully ourselves because we’re wondering about you and your intentions.
Chances are you’re not your 100% powerful confident self either. There is a monkey in the middle of the room. Everyone is wondering about it and no one is talking about it.
We all want to be sexy right? What’s über sexy is a man being open, honest and vulnerable enough to put himself “out there” clearly with a woman. What isn’t sexy in life or dating is evasiveness and manipulation.
Clearly it’s not easy out there with the host of blurry boundaries, messages and ever-changing rules, but remember this: women respect strength, honesty and vulnerability. That combination is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
When you jump in with both feet and ask for what you want, you may not get the YES answer every time but you WILL end up leaving every “reject-or” wondering if they made a mistake since you were so dang sexy in the way you asked! 
xo
All images courtesy of freedigitalphotos.net chicken by karen shaw, couple by Francesco Marino, tea by graur codrin, shy boy by Arvind Balaraman.
Interesting, indeed. I agree with you that men need to be strong, honest and vulnerable in dating and all other aspects of there lives. Frankly, if a man is true to his nature, his strength and vulnerability would just be components of his honesty. As a single guy in the dating world, I want that honesty reciprocated. However, most people just aren’t that secure with themselves. Just as there are plenty of insecure men who are looking to put “notches in their bedposts” as a misguided score card for their self worth, there is an abundance of insecure women who accept dates not as an opportunity to form a connection, but just to feel some sort of validation. The validation of being pursued (unfortunately, Tamara, you are seemingly rare in your ability to see and respect the man’s investment in the dating process. Most women appear to take it for granted). I am a man. Naturally, as a man, I am attracted to women that I feel are good looking. Unfortunately, there is no link between a person’s looks, and their personality/sense of self worth/integrity/etc… I have no problem introducing myself to a woman and asking her on a date. However, after a disproportionate number of dates that ended with me wishing that I had spent that time with my friends and put that money in the bank, I began looking for another way. My answer: The Coffee Date. I don’t ask a woman to coffee to take the pressure off of her. I do it so that we have the opportunity to look into each others eyes, ask questions, and see if we can get a glimmer of what’s inside the other; see if there’s a connection. Kind of a 30 minute pre-date that affords each party an easy out if things just aren’t clicking. My experience has shown that there are a lot of insecure, dishonest (with themselves) and inauthentic women out there who are certainly worthy of my compassion, but not my Saturday night (trust me ladies, I know the same can be said about men). Is the Coffee Date the best way of “separating the wheat from the chaff?” I don’t know, but it seem to be what we’ve got. Any suggestions?
love this thought..thank you for sharing it.
I think the problem isn’t the activity, it’s that the new “lets have tea/coffee” is ambiguous. We don’t know if it’s because you’re interested in us as a potential date, a friendship or a business meeting. I don’t do them anymore. I’d rather someone just say, hey, i think you’re great and I’d like to get to know you more, want to XYZ?
What you wrote here: The Coffee Date. I don’t ask a woman to coffee to take the pressure off of her. I do it so that we have the opportunity to look into each others eyes, ask questions, and see if we can get a glimmer of what’s inside the other; see if there’s a connection.
isn’t this what dates are for?
xo
I think part of the point that DJR is trying to make is that we men, no matter how “manly” we may be, sometimes genuinely need more info to figure out the quality and quantity of interest we feel for a particular woman. Read this sentence twice: It takes time to get to know people. Some of DJR’s comments on the The Coffee Date also merit a second look. (See my excerpts below.) Sure, The Coffee Date may be ambiguous and show less of a commitment. But how certain and committed *should* a man be when he’s just met a woman, or when he’s just getting to know her? (Tamara, you yourself recently had a negative experience with a man who wanted too much too quickly.) Bottom line is, The Coffee Date can help men (and women) figure out if they want to advance to The Real Date while reducing the risk of The Date from Hell. It may be valid for some to Just Say No to The Coffee Date, but it serves a valuable function for others. Is The Coffee Date chicken? Probably for some. For others, at least some of the time, I would use the word “wise”!
DJR wrote:
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oooh, i love this! thank you for writing this. Great food for thought. I think we’re all over thinking a “date”. Isn’t a date just a period of time to get to know one another? Not a commitment, just a 1-few hour time span of some conversation, a few laughs, anticipation, maybe disappointment, you never know sort of ritual? No woman I know expects anything from a date other than a get to know you period of time.
i think it’s a sign of our times. We are all more and more unwilling to put ourselves in a vulnerable position/bad date. So, with our short attention spans, we do mini meetings where we can cut and bail quickly if it doesn’t seem to go well. I still kind of like the mystery of it all; not knowing and finding out. At first i may not feel it with someone but as the night unfolds, there may be some common ground. I think that gets missed in a mini coffee date. My main point was not what we “do” on the date, it’s not being able to figure out if it’s a date, a business meeting or just a guy wanting a girl pal. So many women I know hate that ambiguity…thus my post. Personally, it has nothing to do with what anyone “does” on a date…it’s the forward way of asking for what you want in a clear manner. If someone said to me; “i think you’re beautiful and kind and interesting and I’d like to get to know you more. Would you like to go for a walk with me?” I’d be clear that they were indeed interested in me and would consider that a “date”. 🙂 What is uber sexy is a man being open, honest and vulnerable enough to put himself “out there” clearly with a woman. xoxo
Not taking a softer approach. My original post still stands but we all got off track a bit on subject. Most women I know do not like the ambiguous let’s have tea. I think if a man is interested in a woman, he ought to just say so…not hide behind a “lets have tea” date which leaves us all wondering, why are we having tea?
Any verbage on my part after that point was not to take a softer approach, it was calling out what one of you said about becoming friends before a date. Isn’t a DATE about getting to know someone without expectations? I believe a few of the men out there are putting WAY too much emphasis on the word DATE. A date does not mean you’re dating…it’s a venue to get to know someone more and decide if you want to continue to know them more….thus, another date.
Tea says nothing. Women are so tired of men coming at them with the “let’s become friends” angle only to find out much later, they had an agenda and would love to date and sleep with us. My point still stands: Own it. If you are attracted, curious, interested in us, ask for what you want. Make it clear. Reread what I wrote originally, it’s all there.
xo
Okay, I’d like to give a shout out to tea. The actual beverage I mean. As a man ( more like a boy with wrinkles, but stick with me for a second), I just not always up for a cocktail. I’ve had more than one first date go from giddy to tipsy to sloppy before I could say “check please!” I like the ritual and effect of tea, as apposed to booze. Wine is a shove. Tea is a nudge. Frankly, I have been invited to tea (or coffee) by women, and I think it is sweet. It is not ambiguous unless you are dealing with an ambiguous person. What it says is “I’d like to get to know you.”
Example:I had a lovely cup of tea and conversation with a wonderful woman just the other day. I invited her to tea because I wanted to be clear, not ambiguous. The clear message was (I hope), “I want cultivate a friendship with you.” That friendship may lead to more, or it may not. At the age of forty, I can tell you this- I am not interested in ‘dating’ anyone before becoming friends. Period. The most important quality in any satisfying partnership is the strength of the underlying friendship. So, after our “tea date”, the friendship part seems a sure thing. Is there a spark? Sometime you have to rub two sticks together to get a spark. Plenty of time for that.
great point on all levels. I’m starting to see a pattern here. What men consider a date and what women consider a date may mean two different things.
A date to me, and to most women i know is a date. Nothing expected later, no expectations that one date now means we’re dating, getting married and waltzing into eternity together. A date in my book and every woman i know out there’s book is this: a guy thinks he may like you in some way or another and would like to explore you and see if there is some chemistry and potential for date #2. or just a future friendship. But don’t get me started on whether or not men and women can be friends. That is a post brewing on the back burner and a hot button for both arguement sides for sure!
I overslept this am because i stayed up far too late last night. The first thing I thought when I opened my eyes in bed was this: Women consider dating a way to decide if we only want to be friends; or if we want to continue to go on another date with you, and another and another; one day moving into physical intimacy. No woman I know considers a few dates; a relationship. Dating is that slow dance of getting to know someone and throw the dice on spending a few hours together. After many dates (many), 2 people may decide to dance into relationship and bed.
Perhaps men have expectations that a date will lead somewhere (dating, bed) thus the wanting to “become friends” or have mini tea moments before committing to a “date”?
The problem lies here; women are tired of men pretending to want a friendship and then months later find out they just wanted to sleep with us. It’s heart breaking to put your time and attention into a friendship; and women love their friends….only to find out you’ve been tricked. They never wanted your friendship, they had an agenda. That is where it feels icky to us.
So to the female mind; dating IS getting to know you and deciding if we want to move further. Is it that men consider dating far more serious than we do, thus the let’s be friends before we go on a date? Or is the bottom line what I wrote of earlier? Are SOME men afraid to “put themselves out there”, ask for what they want, make it known they are interested by being vulnerable enough to ask for a date vs. hiding behind the “i just want to be your friend and get to know you” tea date??
Sure, some men have insincere agendas, and women grow tired of it. An approximately equal percentage of women have insincere agendas, and men grow weary of that. Sincerity is not a given on either side of the gender fence.
ALL of us have fears. The only question is how consciously we dialogue and work with our fears.
In modern Western cultures, comfortable pacing of advancing physical intimacy is a very subjective thing that varies from individual to individual, and from pairing to pairing, more than from one gender versus the other. IMHO.
It’s pretty incredible this whole having a body/being a human thing. Male or female, we are all searching for the experience of being ok. I know when I see an attractive man, I hear my ego say “maybe he’s the one that will finally make me feel ok”. Sometimes the pursuit of feeling ok might look like coffee with a potential connection. Other times it might look like a long soak in the tub. Sometimes it’s sex with a friend. There is a paradox in attempting to generalize the dating experience. Although all humans have similar experiences, we each experience life in a very personal way. In the dating realm, there are so many expectations, rules, thoughts, emotions, generalizations, assumptions. What if we put those away and were just real and true and unconditional with one another? Just trying to sort through what is implied, what is emotional baggage, what is seduction, what is love, can be exhausting. Perhaps we should all just focus on the idea that each and every relationship we have, whether intimate, romantic or friendly, is an opportunity to heal- heal our own personal internal drama. Dating/romance is your opportunity to really see yourself, your stories, your drama. Not that having emotions, and ego, and stories is bad, its just a part of being human. Let’s learn to speak from the heart, whether or not we think the other person wants to hear it. Whether there is pain or bliss, ok or not ok, assumptions or expectations, in every moment we have an opportunity witness our experiences, honor our truth, heal, grow, and expand through unconditional love. We are all just mirrors for one another. Mirroring the pain, but more importantly the truly divine nature in us all. Focus on unconditional LOVE~
I agree on all levels. But if we’re real and true and unconditional with one another, then lets’ really ask for what we want. If you want to get to know me with ideals of being romantic with me one day, take me on a date. Doesn’t have to be expensive, just invest some time with me, put yourself out there in full reveal vulnerability and ask for a date. Whether we have friendship or romance down the road will be revealed. Don’t hide behind a Oh, i just want to be your friend, let’s have tea sort of personae. But then again…i’m just speaking for myself and the women I know through business, friendships and women’s groups….men want to know what we think and the overall thought these days is that tea dates are confusing…what do you really want? friendship? To see if you want to invest some time with us for a date? I say, buck up, put yourself out there in total vulnerablitity, ask for what you want with TRUTH…and say, hey, i’d like to get to know you better. You’re attractive, smart, kind, etc. etc…would you like to XYZ?
I am not going to appologize for the majoriy of men, because I don’t understand myself why the majority of men are the way they are, myself included. But I will say one thing; beating around the bush and not being assertive with the way I feel for a woman has never paid off. I have noticed through out my fucked up love life that women have alway been more attracted to me when I was at my most confident. Not when I was being “just so nice” or “smuthering” or what have you. It is sad that coffee and tea has become a cop out date. I think coffee or tea is a great way to meet some for a drink later. Diner has always been to formal a thing for me, but I do try and “dress to impress” every where I go not just when I am interested in a woman. And at the end of the day I find it sad that I can not to relate to most of my gender when it comes to everyday things, espescially women.
P.S. I find Wolverine to be much more relate-able to than Supe. Constant loner, gruff, mis-understood, any woman he gets close to ends up hurting him or getting hurt in some way or another.
love this nolan. My friends and I, many who are therapists all agree, we may not say yes everytime :-), but we love it when a man states clearly what he wants without gameing, manipulating, beating around the bush, etc. Please read the next post on this. Tea for 2 and twists between the sexes. As always, thank you for reading and thank you for posting..
xo
Tamara, Thank-you for taking the risk of writing to your experience of what I see as an incredibly touchy subject for most folk.
What I walk away with from your post is, enough with the games. Men please step up and step forward.
And from the shares on the blog I’m hearing, that there’s a lot of confusion, what if’s, the need for being seen for – The Effort One Is Making, if Nothing Else!
I agree, dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t. It seems we’ve definitely whacked this game right of the ball park of possibility. As a coach for Intimacy and Relating, often I’m hearing that it’s feels strained, and strange out there. I can empathize with both men and women’s desires to be safe and seen and desired for who they are!
For me, the whole dating or attraction experience has to be rooted in, Authenticity, Clear Intentions, Desire without Sacrifice, Self Agency (the ability to be with what is), Open heart, and also the ability to be with that other persons experience of me i.e. feedback on both the side of the Man and the Woman.
This doesn’t necessarily mean that the first thing a man needs to utter is his unadulterated dialog of desire for me…AND having said that…Sometimes this actually works too!
Regardless of the approach, for me it’s in the intention, the including of all of one self, the risk, as well as ‘Being With What Is’ simultaneously. When I’ve received this experience from a man who is in the practice of risking, while being present to what is, I relax, I feel alive, I usually want more, and I’m not attached to where it goes.
It’s about claiming ones stance, purpose and passion.
Here I would add my favorite saying ~ ‘How One is in Relationship is How One is in The World’ ~ I can’t remember who said it, but more, and more, I see the mapping of these realities to be true.
So in saying that ~ Be it tea, movie, talking to me at a party, or taking me to dinner, if any of these interactions are ambiguous, then ambiguity is what will occur. If you’re feeling ‘it’ for me, or not feeling ‘it’ for me, then let me know. Sacrifice it all and let me know regardless of where it goes.
When I’ve taken this approach with man, yes that’s right, when I’ve approached a man to share my attraction or desire, or the experience of Not feeling that for him, I risk it all. I do my best to include all of myself in the interaction regardless of where it goes.
Because in these moments, I FEEL ALIVE, and if I don’t get to be with the guy, at most I walk away having been true to myself, and having space for their reactions, and at the least I walk away Feeling Alive 🙂
And please hear me, approaching men is not the message here, or the message that I’m sending women, I’m simply saying, “where it’s the case” and here I’m intending that perhaps in my experience of approach, there might be some information to be shared.
And notice that the main information ~ is Authenticity and having my Heart Open, and when my heart is open (which is a practice), I express compassion, kindness, and joy more easily. I also include Self-a]Agency , that piece about, can I be with their answer or feedback to me? In most cases Yes, and when I’m a No, or I’m having an adverse reaction, it’s typically because I’m away from or have forgotten my practices as mentioned above.
I love receiving the experience of Clarity of Intention, Risk Rooted in Safety, and Vulnerability!
Because in receiving that, I relax, I get to feel all of me, and by virtue of this I get to feel all of you, I show up and radiate, I communicate with all of me in the game, and to that I say Yes Please 🙂
Sujana Hara Myca
Transformational Coach ~ Intimacy in Relating
ahhh, i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again sujana~i love you! xo
What you put out is what you get back. Regardless of the form of the “meeting,” if you’re clear about what you want, then you will get clear feedback. A man can say that with his eyes and not even use words. Words obviously help the cause though 🙂
If a man is in front of a woman and says “I want to know you better” but he is not feeling his desire, or showing it, and feeling tentative, it will be a totally different experience than that same man who is grounded and feeling his desire, not attached to what the response is, and says “I want to know you better.” Don’t trust me though, ask any woman. They’ll probably let out a sigh and relax just hearing that.
In my personal experience, and in men’s workshops I’ve led for several years now, the core issue is more about us feeling our desire and enjoying it and not being attached to any outcome.
A lot of us have either gotten bashed, rejected, or conditioned to the point where we think that standing in front of a woman and allowing ourselves to even feel desire, let alone make it known, is going to make her uncomfortable, so we shut it down. It took me a while to realize that and feel into my body and relax when asking a woman out, or sharing my feelings.
I noticed that as the stakes got higher, I would hold a lot of tension in my belly and the front of my body, which any woman will pick up on some level and the interaction won’t feel as good.
When we really mask our feeling, it can come across as creepy. A friend of mine defined creepy as “having masked intentions.” Which is what I imagine Tamara is pointing to with the men who started as friends and then later revealed their feelings to be different. That same man could have been playful and open about his intentions, and even is she wasn’t interested; they could still have a fun, lasting friendship, instead of sacrificing trust in order to not be vulnerable.
Think about the scene in Vicki Christina Barcelona, where the artist approaches the table with the 2 women and proposes a weekend get away and making love with them both. He’s totally open, and right with his desire, and even when the one woman is bashing him, he’s totally ok with his desire and curious about their experience…”What offended you about my offer?”
He’s not posturing, or collapsing, just being truthful, enjoying himself, and not attached to any outcome.
awesome insight and i do remember that scene…such a wonderful example…i’ll use that in another post!! thank you kevin~there are so many great men out there and this helps spread the word.
xo
What will you say when the love of your life invites you to tea?
If he makes it clear he’s interested in getting to know me rather than the ambiguous, hey we should have tea sometime….i’d say yes.
I met the love of my life, Vanessa, on Facebook. A few weeks later we scheduled a tea date at the Dushanbe Teahouse. It wouldn’t have mattered much where we had our first date, because the forces that caused our union were so much greater than either of our ideas of etiquette or appropriateness. In fact, hours before our tea date I could feel the aura of our union and it felt like I was going to my execution, a certain death, dissolving and transforming. It was nervewracking and scary and yet I knew this “tea date” would be life changing, and all I needed to do was surrender and relax. We sat by the river, had tea and had a long, deep discussion. I was so interested in getting to know this person who I felt I would spend the rest on my life with! So, yes it was a great tea date and has been an amazingly wonderful partnership for the last 63 weeks.
So I say, when true love invites us to tea or even a funeral
Say Yes!
Amen
I love this Christian..thank you for sharing your story so openly. I felt it in my heart as I read your words. (As you know my post was about being upfront with intentions, not really about what we do on dates). Yes to true love, yes to following your heart and gut and yes to 2 open hearts finding their way home to one another.
xo
Love this Tamara! Touches on soooo many interesting dilemmas! I’m too often guilty of the”…wanna have tea sometime?” question. She doesn’t know if I’m interested, i don’t know if she’s interested and the whole thing goes nowhere! Add in the fact i’m usually completely oblivious to the fact a woman’s interested and i’m a dating 101 FAIL!
You’re not a 101 fail anything christopher!! 🙂 I know that personally! But yes, we’re all guilty of it. I’m just glad we’re all considering alternatives to our old behaviors.
xo
You are SOOO on the money with this in soooo many ways. and its sooo old – the never knowing…I personally am at the point that i just don’t know and don’t care if I’ll have a date again. i have my career, my side gig, my Hot Yoga, and my friends, and i just don’t care. Coffee is fine – for people who are meeting someone the first time (like Online dating, etc. – which is a whole other topic lol)…but damn, if you like us, buy us dinner. cook us a steak. I am sooo coming back to this to the read the comment later!
Yep. I agree. The nice thing about meeting for coffee/tea if it’s a online dating situation is that you KNOW it’s a date! lol Doesn’t matter what you do, just let us know you’re interested. And yes, I agree, if you’re interested in us, make an effort!
Hi Tamara,
I’ve enjoyed this article. Dating is not what it used to be, is it? No one is teaching these guys the obvious. Unrealistic expectations, well meaning, but flawed idea’s in how men show women they see them as equals, and see that most guys have no idea how to behave.
That said, If I was asked by a younger guy for advice on a first dinner date, I would tell him;
Treating a woman as an equal thing? as in not offering to pick her up, going dutch, not getting doors, leaving her to order for herself…Its crap. A woman needs to know you will take care of her. Take her coat, get her chair, order for both of you, Listen to her, and don’t interrupt.
Good Manners. Good Shoes, press your shirt. Shave.
Treat her like she is the most important person in the room; even if you already know you probably aren’t going to see her again. Treat her the way you would like to be treated.
Get the check.
They will notice. Actions speak louder than words.
Robert, when i hit “approve” for this comment, i wanted to hit REALLY APPROVE. I’m sure a lot of women out there would AGREE. Thank you!!!
Well im totaly lost and grasping at straws here I’ve got this wonderful gal that totaly drives me mad. For almost a year now we have been haveing dinner at my house and recently had a few drinks together. She didnt want me to drive home so told me i could spend the night … when we snuggled up things started to warm up and due to the fact that I didnt want our first time to be influenced by drink i backed off. Since then i asked her steady i guess you would say and she shot me down… stone cold shot me down… I wrote her a very indepth email telling her exactly how I felt… what things i really apreciated in her and that I would be honored to move foward but out i respect i didnt want to sleep with her that night. plz help what am i doing wrong?
Hi there~
thank you for reading and for asking. I would walk away IF you’ve made it clear to her how you feel, why you backed down and what you want. If after seeking clarity with her you find that she doesn’t want the same thing, it’s time to move on and find the one that will! But you have to be clear with her…no second guessing and that takes courage. To say to her, I’ve been wanting more and I backed off because I care and didn’t want alcohol to be a factor; now I’m afraid you have changed your mind about me since that night…..will get you a straight answer. Skirting around your question, not being direct, not being vulnerable to really put it all out there will just get an ambiguous answer. So go for it. Hopefully she agrees with you and if not, you’re a free agent to find real love instead of wondering about a possibility. xo
Greetings and thanks!
What a great conversation has been stimulated here, and such an important one. Thanks Tamara for putting it out there! There has been so much enlightening information shared and I just love opening the gates on this conversation. Far too many times I have been left wondering…. hmmmm, I wonder what that’s (the tea invite) all about.
What I want to own is the fact that I have said yes or no thanks without even understanding the intention behind the date. It simply doesn’t say I’m flattered, I appreciate the invite …. I respect you, and honor you as a fellow journeyer. It doesn’t say to Spirit, YES, I want to date and build authentic relating practices, if indeed I do, and I do! Any yes or no with which I respond without understanding the motivation for the invite is a certain recipe for more gray area, which I don’t think bodes well for the start of any kind of relating, be it friendship, business or intimacy.
As women on the receiving end of such invitations I think it behooves the lot of us to ask for what we want, to ask for clairty. Let’s make it easy and invite the men to articulate their motivation for asking. In this way we up the ante and can ourselves practice what we are longing for in all our relations.
In this, my apprenticeship to truth and transparency, I had step outside my comfort zone of risking hurt feelings, or discomfort in “other”. I’ve learned if I ask… often with a playful spirit “and what are your intentions sir” it primes the way for the more authentic sharing. It let’s the one asking know I care about where I put my energy investments, and that I will respect his too. More importantly it supports us coevolving together in higher truth, compassion, and respect. Like this wonderful blog!
Much love,
Ahva
Thank you Ahva. So well said. A ho!
Thank you Ahva for your wise and heartfelt response.
Maybe a man asks a woman to join him for tea to see if he likes her enough to ask her out on a date.
Simon, I would say that’s a date. It’s not the tea, it’s the intention. Unless your intention is a pre date to make sure a date is safe, well then I’d have to ask you what other areas of your life are you afraid to go boldly into? Not dipping your toe into the water and being unwilling to express interest in someone by calling it a date for tea, is in my opinion and i’m sorry here~a chicken’s way out. For goodness sake, let them know you’re interested (because you are slightly) and take them on a TEA DATE. It can be 30 minutes or less but let her know your intentions. It’s a date. It’s a short date, but it’s a date. There is no such thing as a pre date to see if a date is appropriate.
huge sigh…
Tamara
I agree with Simon. Why do we need to give these meetings labels? Dating seems to put big expectations on everyone when it’s difficult to know if you’re interested in a new person in that way until you’ve figured it out. What about just getting to know someone as a person, and that being a catch up, hang out, sit down, stand up, whatever? What does it matter if it’s over a cup of tea or something more structured? Ultimately, if someone is keen to spend time with you, there is a chance they’re interested, and if they want to be friends, that will soon be discovered. Maybe the person who’s being asked is wanting to entertain the possibility without having the pressure of a date either. Ambigutity is not a bad thing. It reduces expectations. And makes it more exciting….
Hi Rach, Thank you for reading and for commenting.
First off, it’s not about what you do on your date or even if it goes somewhere. It’s about making your intentions known. Ambiguity certainly adds a degree of drama to a date, but wouldn’t you rather know if you’re meeting someone on a coffee/tea date or if you’re meeting someone that wants to do some business networking with you or consider you for a new running partner? I don’t know about you, but most peeps I know are busy and delegate time to meet based on what the meeting is for.
It’s truly not about any pressure for the date to go somewhere. No one is locked in by calling it a date and the ambiguity that you speak of is there until the day you die regardless of dating status. There is no guarantee someone you even marry will want to wake up everyday for the rest of their life and stay with you.
Having a man ask for what he wants. Say to you, hey I’d love to get to know you more, let’s have coffee is a hell of a lot more interesting and more exciting than Hey, want to meet for tea?
xo
Hear, Hear, HEAR, Sister!
My friend, Kevin Brown, referred me to your article.
I was teaching about masculine-feminine relationships in Northern Europe, when they mentioned something something about the “traditional” “American” dating system. Not knowing their country well enough, I just started asking questions. Both the men and women agreed that they preferred the less-pressure of the hang-out date.
After getting a clear picture of their scenario (like yours above), and following through with some brief questions, I heard that the men determined that they had paid for up to 3 dates (and some women had paid), and heard reports later from the woman’s sister/ friends that the woman HAD NOT KNOWN that she had been on dates! In a few short minutes, everyone in the room had changed their minds to prefer the clear-up-front-state-your-intentions-cuz-it’s-hotter-and-saves-everyone-time-and-energy approach.
Seems like there is a semantics issue whether some people are comfortable enough saying “I’m interested in you enough to go on a first date with you” vs. those who say “I’m interested enough in you to ask you to spend more time with me and call it a hang-out.” If the interest is a potential romantic/sex/dating partner, then… seems like we are all talking about the same situation, and it’s just semantics in my eyes.
Maybe it helps them to think that the line between hanging out as friends and a first date is 4 get-togethers down the road, but for me, the line is when you first ask me.
Men, it helps ME to know that you consider me unique from others… you compliment me, softens me, give me tingles of excitement… I hear it is worth it to you to schedul time away from other people to focus just on me. That’s when I begin to feel special to you.
I know plenty of women don’t, but that’s when I prefer to be honest, right up front, not waste my time (money, effort) or yours, and just say yes or no.
I don’t like ambiguity. I like anticipation. There’s plenty of anticipation with “oooooo, this is new, I’m so curious about this new person”… I don’t need to add the ANXIETY of “What’s going on? Do they like me? Can I ALLOW myself to like them?”
YES. Tamara, yours is the clearest argument I’ve heard yet on ambiguity and no-guarantees anyway. NICE job!!!
Kevin Brown rocks! Thank you so much for your comment, thoughts and for taking the time to read my post. I received a lot of flack on this one as many people misunderstood my coffee and tea reference to be about money….not at all..it’s about making your intention known and I loved reading your comment and thought process. Internet high five to you.
🙂
“Guys, mercy dates don’t happen, it’s not high school anymore and no one feels sorry for you. There isn’t a woman on the planet over the age of 30 that is going to waste her time dating someone she’s not interested in.”
I think this lines are pretty wrong at least in my country… there are gold diggers/ Interested girls that would accept the date just to go out with someone and have a lunch even tough they dont want anything just to get a free lunch.
im not saying every woman does this but certanly is more common than you would think.
Daniel,
I’m sorry to hear that. You guys work hard for your money. I did say MOST women. Like bad attorney’s and dentists, they are out there, but most don’t do that. You seem like a smart guy, I’m sure you can sniff them out. I’d hate to see you shut down who you are on a date because you’re worried by those small few that date for dinner.
Truth is, when women do that, it makes them FAT.
Best to you. Thank you for writing!
T
I don’t see anything wrong with Tea. If a couple has chemistry, then they will be able to determine that over tea or at dinner . It should make no difference. Guys should not have to invest a lot of money to find out if there is chemistry.. If some girls only have chemistry or feel that they have value when they are out on expensive dinners, then perhaps those are the girls to avoid.
Okay, so I understand that some people think that Tea is boring. Perhaps those individuals should suggest an expensive dinner and offer to pay for it or offer to at least pay for half of it.
It’s an outdated notion that men should be the individuals to pay on a date. It kind of made of sense back in the era when women did not work and had no money, but not now. If women want equal rights (e.g., equal pay, equal opportunity), then perhaps they should lobby for all sexes to be treated equally, whether it is the dating world , work world, or divorce world. If one enforces the notion that women should be treated differently in one area, they are likely enforcing the notion that women should be treated differently in all other areas I know that many women want equal rights in the business world and superior rights in the dating world. In those cases, women are for equality only when it suits them.
For the record, I am for equal pay for women, equal opportunity for women, equal parenting rights for men, and equality for men in the dating world. In other words, I am for equality for all and no favoritism based upon sex. Anyone who thinks differently is not for equality and perhaps does not deserve it. I am not saying that folks can’t treat each other or be chivalrous at times, but an expectation that someone invest a substantial amount of money on a date, particularly a first date, is just plain wrong. The quality or potential quality of a date should never be measured by its cost . It’s not about the money. The true quality should should be measured by whether you can make each other laugh and smile. And folks, you can find that out over a cup of tea.
J
Thank you for writing Jeremy. As I mentioned in my post, there is NOTHING wrong with tea…if a man make sit clear he is interested in getting to know you better. Like I said, even a walk is fine. It has nothing to do with money and everything to do with making your intentions known.
Xo